Crash Documents W 7465, N 3720, EH 960, W 7427

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jamesinnewcastle
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Crash Documents W 7465, N 3720, EH 960, W 7427

Post by jamesinnewcastle »

Here is a review of the info I have on some Stirling crashes. Contact me for a copy.

W 7465 - Handwritten page concerning bowing of Starboard Wing

N 3720 - 3 Page report on the A/C fractured Spar

EH 960 - 4 page report on excessive vibrations (apparently it crashed)

W 7427 - Single letter regarding wing spar fracture


James

Dion
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Re: Crash Documents W 7465, N 3720, EH 960, W 7427

Post by Dion »

Hi James

Could I get a copy of the crash report for N3720.

My Grandfather flew in this Stirling as rear gunner during most of his time with 218 Sqn. There is an entry in his logbook for 24-8-42 that reads: War Ops Frankfurt, Shot up, pranged on landing, one motor. I wonder if the crash report relates to this.

Thanks, Dion

jamesinnewcastle
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Re: Crash Documents W 7465, N 3720, EH 960, W 7427

Post by jamesinnewcastle »

Hi Dion

Pages attached - It looks like this report was a long time after the incident that you refer to. Have you the ORBs for the squadron? These might show the incident that you refer to and the continued use of the aircraft, probabaly to the point where the pilot had the issues reported.


James
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Re: Crash Documents W 7465, N 3720, EH 960, W 7427

Post by Dion »

Hi James,

Thanks for posting the document. What are Squadron ORBs?

Dion

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Re: Crash Documents W 7465, N 3720, EH 960, W 7427

Post by K4KittyCrew »

Dion wrote:Hi James,

Thanks for posting the document. What are Squadron ORBs?

Dion
Hi Dion and welcome to the forum.
ORB's ( Operational Record Books ) are squadron records of each bombing operation, naming the crews, aircraft, target, bomb load, details of the operation, etc.
I have included my fathers' ORB's here as an example.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1439
Cheers,
John
K for Kitty Crew - Winthorpe, 1661 HCU's - stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org/
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"

jamesinnewcastle
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Re: Crash Documents W 7465, N 3720, EH 960, W 7427

Post by jamesinnewcastle »

Hi Dion

You will see from kittycrew's page that you will be able to see all your grandfathers missions and a precis of each. There is another similar record type where you will find that at the end of each month there was a 'roll-up' of that months activities, these can also include non-operation articles such as a visit by a dignitary or and attack on the airfield.

The ORBs will allow you to track backwards to where your Grandfather joined the squadron, then even to previous squadrons - if any.

You can now get ORBs by email direct from The National Archives - you will need to fight with their web site to find the ORBs though. On the first page pull down the 'Search Our Website' to get to Search our Records otherwise you will get lost in trivia.

You can get the orbs instantly after paying a nominal sum.

You should be able to match his records with his log book! There are other records that you can see too - if he crashed there will be a record for that and also a record for the history of each aircraft - oh yes you can find that for N3720 too, have a look at the RAFM website.

Can't type more at the moment but I'll add more later.

James

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Re: Crash Documents W 7465, N 3720, EH 960, W 7427

Post by Dion »

Big thanks John & James for the information.

I've had a quick look at the National Archives website and found the ORB records for 218 Sqn. There's a whole new avenue of research for me now!

The RAFM website you mention - is that the RAF Museum http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk?

Cheers,

Dion

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Re: Crash Documents W 7465, N 3720, EH 960, W 7427

Post by jamesinnewcastle »

Hi Dion

Yes, that's the site - again look for the 'Research' sections rather than the museum bits.

You may be able to get a form AM1180 for the aircraft you want to research - I've attached one for my A/C of interest, these came in different formats so don't expect it to be quite the same necessarily. Ask them to copy both sides - took me ages to get that done and the reverse has useful info on it.

You will see a form 765c mentioned, this is a report on the crash in more detail - you can rip this from the Air Historic Branch (AHB) of the MOD (google it) though they won't copy the original as they are too 'fragile' they won't photograph it for posterity either in case all the print instantaeously fades, however they are happy to keep them in a scruffy folder and rake through them with the treasury tags tearing at the corners of the paper...... They don't seem to realise that no-one is ever going to want to look at these documents, except those people who actually ask for them, but they still resist giving the info out. They will probably transcribe what is on the report but you never know what they haven't copied. If I sound bitter it is because I am!

Also on the AM1180 you will see an AIB or Air Investigation Branch number except that in the attached case there wasn't one, there was a Court of Inquiry (COI) report however and the number is shown. Apparently there was always such an enquiry if the crash was on home soil. However these documents were apparently cluttering up the MOD offices and so were burnt after the war along with all the old Airmans Log Books thus chopping away many histories. No space! Surely the RAF possessed some really large areas of land called airfields that these records could have sat in? Again really bitter as the COI would have been a very large and detailled document...... Ask the AHB if they have a copy, some were kept and you can find examples of these but probably not the ones that you need. I think that the AVIA 5 records of TNA may have some too.

Also ask the RAFM if they have an AM78 form which is basically the history of your selected aircraft. Again get both sides copied.

Generally I'd suggest googling all these documents etc and use other forums which are usually full of helpful people. If you google N6012 you might find my trail of questions and thus the various forums I've been on.

Happy Hunting
James
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jamesinnewcastle
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Re: Crash Documents W 7465, N 3720, EH 960, W 7427

Post by jamesinnewcastle »

Hi

Attached are examples of an AM78 form and a page from a Court of Inquiry (CoI), there are about 10 pages in the full CoI document and photographs of the affected areas of the aircraft - these would have been treasure troves for researchers had they survived.

James
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Re: Crash Documents W 7465, N 3720, EH 960, W 7427

Post by Dion »

Hi James,

I've bought a bunch of the 218sqn records from National Archives and will follow your suggestions for researching the aircraft.

Thanks for you help, it's really appreciated!!

Dion

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