Put Wood 'int 'Ole?

Post Reply
jamesinnewcastle
Flight Lieutenant
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:31 am

Put Wood 'int 'Ole?

Post by jamesinnewcastle » Thu May 15, 2014 12:31 pm

Hi All

My Dad was always shouting that phrase at me, but bizarrely it seems to have been applied to the Stirling.

If you look at the attached pictures of the Stirlings inner door to the rear turret, on the top left (arrowed) you will see what is a large piece of wood.

I'm hoping that someone may be able to answer my query of 'what was it for'?

It is wood as I have seen pictures taken of the tail section held by the RAFM, it has been carefully shaped to have no sharp edges - in fact it is 'pillow-like'. There is a cut-out in the door to accommodate this item but it has no holes or discernable function?

Since the rear door sits in what is effectively a shallow 'tray' it does not seem to be an efficient suppressor of vibration because a few sections of rubber would have been enough for that. The wood seems to fit into the cut-out on the door so I assume that there is no contact between the door and the wood.

Any ideas????


Cheers
James
Attachments
woody Bit.jpg
woody Bit.jpg (33.11 KiB) Viewed 1397 times

User avatar
ME453
Wing Commander
Wing Commander
Posts: 719
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:37 pm
Location: Dorset but nearly Somerset and Wilts
Contact:

Re: Put Wood 'int 'Ole?

Post by ME453 » Thu May 15, 2014 6:34 pm

Perhaps it's to stop the door banging so that it doesn't wake the rear gunner up?! :shock: :?
Max
www.ordinarycrew.co.uk
Dedicated to the crew of Lancaster ME453 467 squadron

jamesinnewcastle
Flight Lieutenant
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:31 am

Re: Put Wood 'int 'Ole?

Post by jamesinnewcastle » Fri May 16, 2014 9:15 am

Hi Again

I've thought about the wood thing for a few weeks now since I had to put it into my 3D model and this morning in the shower (why is it always in the shower?) I suddenly had the idea that the wood is simply filling a notch that had to be made in the door and has no other 'technical' purpose. The notch had to be made so that when the door is opened it didn't foul against part of the superstructure of the fuselage!! Ironically this is something I can test myself as I have a 3D model! (I'll check that out tonight when I get home.....)

The wood was probably made very smooth because the rear gunner was bound to bang his head on it at some point, and the notch because otherwise the door wouldn't open wide enough for the rear gunner to get past easily. In a way then Max is right as it is all about the comfort of the rear gunner!

Anyone else find that the simple act of asking a question often results in you coming up with an answer for yourself?


Cheers
James

User avatar
ME453
Wing Commander
Wing Commander
Posts: 719
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:37 pm
Location: Dorset but nearly Somerset and Wilts
Contact:

Re: Put Wood 'int 'Ole?

Post by ME453 » Fri May 16, 2014 12:42 pm

It's called the creative process James: Investigation (i.e. an active response to a problem - researching possible scenarios etc), Incubation (a subliminal action that takes place in your brain without you even being aware of it), and finally at some stage Inspiration!! which can hit you at any time whenever your brain sorts the problem out and it surfaces into the conscious world!
My answer was obviously light-hearted and tongue in cheek, as you say there could be a kernel of truth in it!
Max
www.ordinarycrew.co.uk
Dedicated to the crew of Lancaster ME453 467 squadron

jamesinnewcastle
Flight Lieutenant
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:31 am

Re: Put Wood 'int 'Ole?

Post by jamesinnewcastle » Fri May 16, 2014 6:46 pm

Hi Max

I thought it was a bright idea but the door doesn't seem to hit any part of the fuselage that would need the cut away!

Back to the drawing board as they say....


Cheers
James

User avatar
ME453
Wing Commander
Wing Commander
Posts: 719
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:37 pm
Location: Dorset but nearly Somerset and Wilts
Contact:

Re: Put Wood 'int 'Ole?

Post by ME453 » Fri May 16, 2014 8:08 pm

So thinking about the war time production of aircraft and that Shorts also built the Sunderland for example, could there perhaps be shared structures between the two and that on the Sunderland that gap was required, but not on the Stirling. The easiest thing to fill the 'ole would be a wooden lump!
Max
www.ordinarycrew.co.uk
Dedicated to the crew of Lancaster ME453 467 squadron

User avatar
K4KittyCrew
Air Chief Marshal (RAAF)
Air Chief Marshal (RAAF)
Posts: 3603
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:55 am
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland - Australia

Re: Put Wood 'int 'Ole?

Post by K4KittyCrew » Sun May 18, 2014 9:13 am

Thanks for the post, James.
I wish I could be of more help but in truth, I have no idea as to this 'item'.
What I do like is that we continue to learn about the aircraft, the crews and the people who made it.
Cheers,
John
K for Kitty Crew - Winthorpe, 1661 HCU's - stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org/
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"

jamesinnewcastle
Flight Lieutenant
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:31 am

Re: Put Wood 'int 'Ole?

Post by jamesinnewcastle » Sun May 18, 2014 2:37 pm

HI All

Max could well be right with regard to being from a previous design - but adding materials and additional work just to copy a previous drawing makes no sense especially when just a few lines would easily modify this particular design.

However if you have a stock of those doors/parts or tooling already built then perhaps you might.

I'll need to check on the Sunderland doors - Isn't there one at Hendon?


Cheers
James

Stirling Project
Group Captain
Group Captain
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:05 pm
Location: St Neots, Cambridgeshire

Re: Put Wood 'int 'Ole?

Post by Stirling Project » Sun May 18, 2014 6:05 pm

I was at Hendon last weekend and went into the Sunderland. I don't recall seeing a door such as that and to be honest, from the drawing pack we have, there is very little commonality between the Stirling and Sunderland. We have a got some Shorts 'Standard' drawings but the control column which looks identical bewteen the 2 ac is in fact longer on a Sunderland (1.5" IIRC)

John

jamesinnewcastle
Flight Lieutenant
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:31 am

Re: Put Wood 'int 'Ole?

Post by jamesinnewcastle » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:57 pm

Hi All

It's taken a while, and the sale on ebay of the door to the rear gunners area, but now I can answer my own question, though I could have guessed it previously anyway from existing film.

OK so I contacted the guy selling the door and he gave me the rough dimensions for my model - the measurements were ridiculous, it was a tiny door. However, on checking, his dimensions were of course right and I had to adjust my mind set. I also discovered that the door does not reach the floor, rather there is a substantial 'step'. I had drawn this step but had connected it to the door and not the fuselage floor!

However my dimensions - gleaned from photos and a scaling ruler were very close to the actuals!

80cm tall - I have 80.52 cm
55cm wide - I have 58.4 cm

(Get a tape measure and check out the size, could you get through it? In an emergency?)

Cut in top of door is -
10cm wide - I have 11.43 cm
3 cm deep - 2.85 cm
Port Perspex window is 12.5 cm dia - I have 12.9 cm

But what of the notch? I checked on my model that the door was not notched to avoid hitting surrounding metal work and it wasn't - but I didn't have enough metalwork! Check out the two attached photos - I now think that the notch is there in order to miss the metal structure with the large holes in! How does that seem?

Cheers
James
Attachments
2.jpg
2.jpg (21.11 KiB) Viewed 168 times
1.jpg
1.jpg (22.06 KiB) Viewed 168 times

Post Reply