Combat claims by No.3 Group

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phasselgren
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Combat claims by No.3 Group

Post by phasselgren » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:42 pm

Hi,

Since a few years a have been collecting information about combat claims by New Zealand air gunners during WW2. The lack of a complete list of all combat claims by Bomber Command is a great obstacle in my research and therefore I have started to create a database with combat claims for destroyed/probable/damaged enemy aircraft by Bomber Command during WW2 (excluding Mosquito fighter units). My aim is to include the names of the involved air gunners and pilots.

From 1 January 1943 all the official claims are listed in the Monthly Supplementary Narrative of Operations but unfortunately no names only squadron numbers and a/c code letters. The period before 1943 is a bigger challenge and I will start with this period. From spring 1941 to the end of 1942 I have copies of INTERCEPTION/TACTICS REPORTS covering enemy response to Bomber Command’s night operations including combats with night fighters. My problem is that only the Bomber Group is identified and I need help to identify the involved squadrons.

As I mentioned above my main interest has been New Zealand air gunners. Initially I will concentrate on No.3 Group were most of them served and that is way I turned to this Forum.

Following combats are from AIR 14/3372 and naturally I start with combats involving the Stirling. I need help to identify the involved squadrons but any other information is of course much appreciated.

Night 26/27 March 1942, target: Essen
“DORSTEN, 8 miles N.N.W., 2212 hrs, 14,000 ft. Stirling attacked by Ju.88 from green quarter and below, firing short burst. Our R/G replied with two bursts at 75 yards, 400 rounds. Expended E/A turned on back, glowed, caught fire, disintegrated at hitting ground. Claimed as destroyed.”

Night 5/6 April 1942, target: Cologne
“DIEST SCHAFFEN 13,500 feet. 04515 hours believed Me 109 approached Stirling dead astern at 400 yds. opening fire [missing text] Shots to s/board as result of evasive action. Our R/G fired short bursts. After breaking away to s/board E/A made second attack from S/board beam. Stirling turned inwards. Mid-upper gunner replied to fire, claims hits. Our A/C not hit.”

Night 17/18 April 1942, target: Hamburg
“HAMBURG 0252 hours 14000 ft. Stirling held in S/L was attacked dead astern by Ju.88 R/G fired short burst, was wounded. E/A broke to port beam, mid upper gunner fired 5 sec. burst, claimed as damaged.”

Night 22/23 April 1942, target: minelaying
“FLENSBURG Fjord. 2342 hours, 5,000 ft. Stirling heading 110 degs. Me.110 approached from stern and below and opened fire at 150 yds. Our r/gunner replied with 15 second burst. E/A turned away and last seen diving with smoke from fuselage.”
“BRANDERUP area 0059 hours 8,000 ft. Stirling heading 288 degs. Into moon, believed Do.17 approached from below and astern on green side then to red. E/A fired from 100 yds and caused damage to mainplane. Our a/c replied when a/c came to red side. Mid upper fired 4 bursts and r/gunner 2 bursts. E/A claimed hit and disappeared to port.”

Night 28/29 April 1942, target: Kiel
“KIEL 0205 hrs. 17,000 ft. Stirling attacked 3 times by Me.110 which approached from port and starboard closing to 100 – 75 yards and firing with 4 machine guns. No cannon fire. Our A/c held at start by 30/40 S/Ls. E/A had 3 longish into fuselage as it turned away after last attack. This A/c claimed as severely damaged.”

Night 6/7 May 1942, target: Stuttgart
“KARLSRUHE 5 miles N.W. 0142 hrs. 8,0000 ft. Stirling cones by 30/40 S/ls and held for 15 minutes heading 304° when unseen unidentified A/c fired 2 bursts from dead astern. Our mid. And upper gunner fired longs bursts down E/a tracer. All S/Ls dowsed except one which remained perpendicular and red flashes were seen at its base. A ball of fire was seen in air falling to ground and large fire developed. E/A claimed as probable. Another Stirling and Wellington seen held in S/Ls at the same time but not attacked.”
There is a late note on this claim: “In addition two claims are made of E/A probably destroyed, one of an Me 110 over North Sea, by a Lancaster, and the other over Karlsruhe by a Stirling. This last is possibly confirmed by observations of A/c seen destroyed in this area at approximately the same time.”

Thanks in advance

Regards,
Peter

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wayne
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Re: Combat claims by No.3 Group

Post by wayne » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:38 am

Hi Peter,

I don't know if I can help much, but I'll try.
You are dong a fantastic job with your database, and I hope others here can help you.

All the best,
Wayne.

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smudgersmith218
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Re: Combat claims by No.3 Group

Post by smudgersmith218 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:20 pm

phasselgren wrote:Hi,

Since a few years a have been collecting information about combat claims by New Zealand air gunners during WW2. The lack of a complete list of all combat claims by Bomber Command is a great obstacle in my research and therefore I have started to create a database with combat claims for destroyed/probable/damaged enemy aircraft by Bomber Command during WW2 (excluding Mosquito fighter units). My aim is to include the names of the involved air gunners and pilots.

From 1 January 1943 all the official claims are listed in the Monthly Supplementary Narrative of Operations but unfortunately no names only squadron numbers and a/c code letters. The period before 1943 is a bigger challenge and I will start with this period. From spring 1941 to the end of 1942 I have copies of INTERCEPTION/TACTICS REPORTS covering enemy response to Bomber Command’s night operations including combats with night fighters. My problem is that only the Bomber Group is identified and I need help to identify the involved squadrons.

As I mentioned above my main interest has been New Zealand air gunners. Initially I will concentrate on No.3 Group were most of them served and that is way I turned to this Forum.

Following combats are from AIR 14/3372 and naturally I start with combats involving the Stirling. I need help to identify the involved squadrons but any other information is of course much appreciated.

Night 26/27 March 1942, target: Essen
“DORSTEN, 8 miles N.N.W., 2212 hrs, 14,000 ft. Stirling attacked by Ju.88 from green quarter and below, firing short burst. Our R/G replied with two bursts at 75 yards, 400 rounds. Expended E/A turned on back, glowed, caught fire, disintegrated at hitting ground. Claimed as destroyed.”

Night 5/6 April 1942, target: Cologne
“DIEST SCHAFFEN 13,500 feet. 04515 hours believed Me 109 approached Stirling dead astern at 400 yds. opening fire [missing text] Shots to s/board as result of evasive action. Our R/G fired short bursts. After breaking away to s/board E/A made second attack from S/board beam. Stirling turned inwards. Mid-upper gunner replied to fire, claims hits. Our A/C not hit.”

Night 17/18 April 1942, target: Hamburg
“HAMBURG 0252 hours 14000 ft. Stirling held in S/L was attacked dead astern by Ju.88 R/G fired short burst, was wounded. E/A broke to port beam, mid upper gunner fired 5 sec. burst, claimed as damaged.”

Night 22/23 April 1942, target: minelaying
“FLENSBURG Fjord. 2342 hours, 5,000 ft. Stirling heading 110 degs. Me.110 approached from stern and below and opened fire at 150 yds. Our r/gunner replied with 15 second burst. E/A turned away and last seen diving with smoke from fuselage.”
“BRANDERUP area 0059 hours 8,000 ft. Stirling heading 288 degs. Into moon, believed Do.17 approached from below and astern on green side then to red. E/A fired from 100 yds and caused damage to mainplane. Our a/c replied when a/c came to red side. Mid upper fired 4 bursts and r/gunner 2 bursts. E/A claimed hit and disappeared to port.”

Night 28/29 April 1942, target: Kiel
“KIEL 0205 hrs. 17,000 ft. Stirling attacked 3 times by Me.110 which approached from port and starboard closing to 100 – 75 yards and firing with 4 machine guns. No cannon fire. Our A/c held at start by 30/40 S/Ls. E/A had 3 longish into fuselage as it turned away after last attack. This A/c claimed as severely damaged.”

Night 6/7 May 1942, target: Stuttgart
“KARLSRUHE 5 miles N.W. 0142 hrs. 8,0000 ft. Stirling cones by 30/40 S/ls and held for 15 minutes heading 304° when unseen unidentified A/c fired 2 bursts from dead astern. Our mid. And upper gunner fired longs bursts down E/a tracer. All S/Ls dowsed except one which remained perpendicular and red flashes were seen at its base. A ball of fire was seen in air falling to ground and large fire developed. E/A claimed as probable. Another Stirling and Wellington seen held in S/Ls at the same time but not attacked.”
There is a late note on this claim: “In addition two claims are made of E/A probably destroyed, one of an Me 110 over North Sea, by a Lancaster, and the other over Karlsruhe by a Stirling. This last is possibly confirmed by observations of A/c seen destroyed in this area at approximately the same time.”

Thanks in advance

Regards,
Peter

Peter,

I may be able to help you please email me.

Cheers

Steve
No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron 1918-1945
The Nomads

phasselgren
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Re: Combat claims by No.3 Group

Post by phasselgren » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:00 pm

Hi,

Wayne: Thanks for your encouraing Words. The work with the database can be frustrating especially as many of the claims are not mentioned in the squadron ORBs. During 1941 No.7 Sqn ORB mentioned all claims and even had a list of claims but during 1942 much less information can be found and claims for damaged seems to be completely neglected.

Steve: email sent

Regards,
Peter

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K4KittyCrew
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Re: Combat claims by No.3 Group

Post by K4KittyCrew » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:28 am

Peter, welcome to the forum and congratulations on your hard work and results.
We look forward to helping each other with records and details as they come to hand.
Cheers,
John
K for Kitty Crew - Winthorpe, 1661 HCU's - stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org/
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"

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