Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

This is the Forum of Squadrons, Crews and Aircraft of Bomber Command & Related Luftwaffe personnel and aircraft.
Nocturna mors
Flight Lieutenant
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:05 am
Location: West Midlands UK

Re: Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

Post by Nocturna mors »

Source http://www.dnw.co.uk/medals/auctionarchive/searchcataloguearchive/itemdetail.lasso?itemid=70339
Source http://www.dnw.co.uk/medals/auctionarchive/searchcataloguearchive/itemdetail.lasso?itemid=70339
DNWMedals_Photo1 data_70339_w800h500.jpg (28.68 KiB) Viewed 47027 times
I would be very interested to know if anyone can confirm the ID of this crew.

Possibly?.....7 Squadron crew: Flight Sergeant D.A Routen, DFM, Flight Sergeant J.H.Brewer, P/O C.Wolstenholme, DFM, Warrant Officer L.O.Noll, Flight Sergeant J.T Simpson, Flight Sergeant J.Kanelakos, RCAF, Flight Sergeant G.Woodcock.

This picture may have been taken prior to them joining PFF or,....maybe at an OTU?

Also, :) .....any guesses to the Stirling code letters/serial no?

Tom
"Rule Britannia two tanners make a bob,three make eighten pence and four two bob"!
User avatar
K4KittyCrew
Air Chief Marshal (RAAF)
Air Chief Marshal (RAAF)
Posts: 3635
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:55 am
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland - Australia

Re: Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

Post by K4KittyCrew »

Hi Tom,

In Michael Bowyer 'The Stirling Story' ............. the serial codes for 'N' series start at, example - N3635 and go upwards. I have no record of N3444.
I'll keep looking.
Cheers,
John
K for Kitty Crew - Winthorpe, 1661 HCU's - stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org/
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"
JohnH
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

Post by JohnH »

Hi there,

I am looking for information about my great uncle. John Charles Pengelly .

Sergeant (Air Gunner) 1378703, Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. 149 Squadron. Died 8th November 1941

As a child I knew he had crashed somewhere in Germany, then many years later when I was posted there I found his grave in the Reichswald Forest Cemetery just outside Kleve near Laarbruch.

I would be very grateful for any information any one has on him, his crew and the mission he was flying that night. I believe bad weather had forced a number of aircraft down that evening,

Many thanks in advance.

John
User avatar
ME453
Wing Commander
Wing Commander
Posts: 719
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:37 pm
Location: Dorset but nearly Somerset and Wilts
Contact:

Re: Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

Post by ME453 »

Welcome John,
I've nothing directly about this crew I'm afraid, but certainly the conditions that night were atrocious. The Nachtjagd War Diaries state:

"392 bombers were detailed for raids on the Reich, 169 aircraft took off for Berlin. In the prevailing bad weather, with strong winds and icing conditions over the North Sea routes, only 73 crews managed to struggle to the Reich's capital, and these only caused minor damage in the general Berlin area. RAF Bomber Command casualties for the night's operations were alarming: 37 aircraft went missing, (only) 8 of which fell foul to the Nachtjagd."

I've always found that background information which helps to appreciate and understand the difficulties these brave young men had to endure is essential!
Regards
Max
www.ordinarycrew.co.uk
Dedicated to the crew of Lancaster ME453 467 squadron
JohnH
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

Post by JohnH »

Thank you for the welcome Max.

I haven't been able to locate any Stirlings that were posted as missing that night and am wondering if my uncle and his crew could still have been flying a Wellington. As the Squadron had only just converted that week... maybe there was a crossover if they didn't have enough Stirlings to go around. Just conjecture on my part.

As I said I'd be grateful for any information.

John
User avatar
K4KittyCrew
Air Chief Marshal (RAAF)
Air Chief Marshal (RAAF)
Posts: 3635
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:55 am
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland - Australia

Re: Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

Post by K4KittyCrew »

Hi John and welcome to the forum. There were two major operation for the 8th November 1941, One was the 7-8th November and the other was 8-9th November 1941
You will notice that the date was 7-8th November `1941. Two Stirling were also lost on this operation. Sources as listed with the final page coming from Chorleys Bomber Command Losses 1941.
from our forum ............ photo collection of the Vickers Wellington aircraft & crews.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1295
Cheers,
John

Image
Image
Image
K for Kitty Crew - Winthorpe, 1661 HCU's - stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org/
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"
JohnH
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

Post by JohnH »

Thank you very very much for this information. It is exactly what I've been looking for.

I'm surprised that there is no information on where the aircraft came down as there was a survivor.

Again thank you for your time and efforts.

John
User avatar
K4KittyCrew
Air Chief Marshal (RAAF)
Air Chief Marshal (RAAF)
Posts: 3635
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:55 am
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland - Australia

Re: Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

Post by K4KittyCrew »

JohnH wrote:Thank you very very much for this information. It is exactly what I've been looking for.

I'm surprised that there is no information on where the aircraft came down as there was a survivor.

Again thank you for your time and efforts.

John
Thanks John, we have a good bunch of researchers here and we'll look a bit further for details relating to the crash site.
Cheers,
John
K for Kitty Crew - Winthorpe, 1661 HCU's - stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org/
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"
JohnH
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

Post by JohnH »

Hi John,

I think I may have been a little abrupt in my previous post.

I wasn't asking you or your other board members to do any further research (although of course anything else you can possibly find out would of course be appreciated). I was just expressing my surprise that in the details you provided me with and that I have chased up on the internet there was no explanation of why the aircraft crashed or where it fell as there was a survivor

You've already done more in two days than I have achieved in the 30 odd years since finding John's grave than I could manage! (not that good at this stuff clearly!)

Thank you very much for responding so quickly to my random request.

Interesting (to me anyway) that the crew were indeed flying a Wellington despite the Sqn converting to Stirlings only a week earlier. I served in the RAF and was on 20 sqn when they converted from Jaguar to Tornado....for a while we were "designate Sqn" the Jags at Bruggen and us at Laarbruch. Then one day we had a handing over ceremony of the colours and we became the sqn while the Jaguars disbanded. I guess things are different in war.

Again, sorry if I seemed ungrateful. I admire and respect everything you are doing here.

Regards

John
User avatar
AlanW
Air Commodore
Air Commodore
Posts: 1359
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:11 am
Location: West Cornwall

Re: Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

Post by AlanW »

John,
Although converted to Stirlings, 149sqdn did not fly it's first Stirling operation until 26th November, when P/O Evans took a single aircraft "N6099" to Ostend, from which he returned with an intact bomb load.
Your great uncle flew 9 previous ops to the one he was lost on. These were flown with 7 different captains and crews.
Alan.
There is no paralell in warfare, to such courage and determination in the face of danger, over so long a period. Such devotion, should never be forgotten.
Post Reply