Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

[K4KittyCrew]

Hi Steve and welcome to the forum,

These details come from the ( in order ) Commonwealth War Graves Commission, site / the Micheal J F Bowyer book, titled The Stirling Story / Chorleys RAF Bomber Command Losses - 1941
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Casualty Details

Name: RUTHVEN, JAMES LLOYD
Initials: J L
Nationality: Canadian
Rank: Flight Sergeant
Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force
Unit Text: 15 Sqdn.
Age: 24
Date of Death: 18/12/1941
Service No: R/72419
Additional information: Son of James Edgar and Catherine Ruthven, of Alliston, Ontario, Canada.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 60.
Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

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W728 Stirling, F, Z / XV Sqn 20th June 1941, FTR ( failed to return ) 18th December 1941, lost at sea.

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Stirling W7428 Information

Type Stirling
Serial Number W7428
Squadron 15
X1D LS-Z
Operation Brest
Date 1 18th December 1941
Date 2 18th December 1941

Further Information

Serial Range W7426 - W7475. 50 Stirling Mk.1. Part of a batch of 150 Short S.29 Stirling Mk.1. W7426-W7475; W7500- W7539; W7560-W7589; W7610-W7639. Delivered by Austin Motors Ltd between Dec40 and Feb42. Contract No.B982939/39. Delivered to No.15 Sqdn 20Jun41. Also wore the ID LS-F. W7428 was one of two 15 Sqdn Stirlings lost on this operation. See: N3665. Airborne from Wyton to attack battleships in Brest Harbour. Last seen with its port wing burning furiously and continuing to fight off attacks from Me109s. All are commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial. F/O G.Bunce KIA F/S J.L.Ruthven RCAF KIA Sgt D.Ferguson KIA P/O R.N.Chancellor KIA Sgt K.A.Jeffreys KIA F/S W.Wooldridge KIA Sgt R.Shearer KIA Sgt P.G.Osman KIA
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Steve, looks like your late uncle's crew position was Flight Engineer.
Hope these details are of some help.
Regards,
John

[sundancer]

Many thanks, John for having provided me with such detailed information. Another researcher, Hugh Halliday, of Ottawa Canada, was kind enough to forward a summary of my uncle's service record. That brings up a supplementary question ; apparently in Canada a researcher can view the service records of an airman to whom he is not related. Is it the same in the U.K.?
I have another query, which I will introduce by way of a brief account of my attempts to contact RCAF veterans who flew with another uncle of mine during the war. Lloyd Ruthven's older brother, Allan, was a WAG on Canso flying boats hunting subs and patrolling convoys in the Western Atlantic, and he left me a packet of photos, one which showed him and his mates on the occasion of a wedding in Summerside, Prince Edward Island in 1943. Their names were clearly printed on the back of the photo. In 1995 I attempted to find them, and discovered all but three. I visited one in Moncton, but the others were too far away. After writing to them, some telephoned me, some wrote, and all were delighted to hear of my interest.
Many stories were told. Which brings me to my query-was it common for crews to have their pictures taken, and if so, might they have ended up in the collections at the National Archives,perhaps filed by location, or squadron ?
I would dearly love to have such a picture to add to our family archives.
Thanks again for your help.
Steve from Canada

[K4KittyCrew]

Steve,

To answer your first question ........... Many service records have become available online from researchers who have put together Bomber Command related sites and may list them for a particular sqn.
The ORB's ( operational record books ) of a crew or crew member can be obtained, for a fee, from the National Archives. Again, many ORB's are listed online, throughout different sites and the site owner may be able to help.

The ORB's list each individual operation with crew lists, target, bomb load, time frame, etc. These may vary from sqn to sqn. They are a must if you are looking for detailed information of, say, your father / uncle/ grandfather, etc.

In regards to photos taken, that was purely up to the individual crew member / crews. My father took a few which are listed on various sites. Truth be known, crews were forbidden to take photos on aircraft/ take notes of ops, etc but many did. I'm sure you can imagine that as a young man of , say 19 - 21, many crews would not have thought of taking them for future reference.

My fathers crew would park themselves in front of a Stirling or Lanc and take a few photos, for whatever reason they had at the time.
http://www.630squadron.com/images/nn702/nn702crew.gif

Another BC forum with many Canadian members / crews details is ......
http://www.bombercrew.com/

Regards,
John

[Oggie2620]

Bruno I have volume 3 of Errol Martyns For Your Tomorrow. If you have anyone asking about New Zealand Air Force people I would happy to do a look up for them. As long as I credit it to him I know he wont mind... Mind you if anyone could also find me a copy of Volume 2 I would be eternally grateful!
Dee

[blow1t]

From Alan Bateman's documents ;

Stirling W7514 Information
Type Stirling
Serial Number W7514
Squadron 15
X1D LS-B
Operation Rostock
Date 1 25th April 1942
Date 2 26th April 1942

“Serial Range W7500 – W7539. 40 Stirling Mk.1. Part of a batch of 150 Short S.29 Stirling Mk.1. W7426-W7474; W7500- W7359; W7560-W7589; W7610-W7639. Delivered by Austin Motors Ltd between Feb42 and May42. Contract No.B982939/39. Delivered to No.15 Sqdn 28Mar42. Airborne 2150 25apr42 from Wyton. Abandoned after being attacked at 0105 be a Me110 from 5.NJG3. Sgt East was killed during the engagement and Sgt Surridge was mortally wounded in the stomach although he managed to bale out. He died from his injuries 28Apr42, while being treated in Tonder Hospital. Of those captured following the crash at Kravlund, 3 km SW of Tinglev, Denmark, Sgt Stephen was killed by a lightning strike in captivity 29Jul44 and he is buried in the Old Garrison Cemetery at Poznan in Poland. It is also reported that the night-fighter crew were obliged to force-land at Bylderup-Bov and although they escaped injury, their Me110 (Werk No.2276) was wrecked. F/O J.E.M.Conran PoW F/O A.B.Bateman PoW Sgt R.T.Stephen PoW P/O A.H.H.Young PoW Sgt R.R.Lawson PoW Sgt G.H.Surridge Inj Sgt R.A.J.Skinner PoW Sgt D.J.East KIA F/O A.B.Bateman was interned in Camp 9C/L3. PoW No.39647. F/O J.E.M.Conran in Camps L1/L3, PoW No.766. Sgt R.A.J.Skinner in Camps L3/L6/357, PoW No.274 with Sgt R.T.Stephen, PoW No.184. (See above). P/O A.H.H.Young in Camp L3, PoW No.217. “

[blow1t]

As per my post above, the link below will take you to photos of the Stirling as it was found in Southern Denmark...

I found a fair bit of information out from a chap called Soren Flensted in Denmark, who has an amazing amount of information and photos including photos of Alan's damaged plane.

http://www.flensted.eu.com/194211.shtml

He also had Alan's post-war questionnaire, which saved me a trip to the National Archives at Kew.

Justine

[jamesinnewcastle]

Hi Steve/Sundancer

I'm going to the National Record Archive in Kew soon to look up an ORB for myself - If you like I can try to find one for your Uncles Aircraft.

Not sure what I am promising here but I will dig out what I can.


James

[chromeboy]

Hi all, i've recently started doing some research into the service history of my late grandfather John Howard Crammond (1823396).

I have his flying log book, and from this i can see he flew in Stirlings either side of his time in 44 (Rhodesia) Sqn where he was a flight engineer aboard Lancasters- the Stirling dates i have are from 13th april 1944 until the 14th of may '44, and then from 28th october '44 until 1st January 1945 when he returned to Lancs, all in 1661 HCU at Winthorpe from what i can gather.

The early flights are on a variety of Stirlings, flying under either F/S Burness or F/S Slade; the later flights have different pilots named for pretty much every entry, as well as his duty being recorded as staff engineer.

From being over on the Lanc forum i've managed to find a photo of his Lanc crew (Sky Floosie) but haven't had any similar success on his Stirling time- any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated
If anyone would be interested, or if the information would help, i can upload scans of his log book if requested

thanks in advance
Kevin.

[K4KittyCrew]

Hi Kevin and welcome to the Stirling forum.

My father, Joe Pollard RAAF, also flew out of 1661 HCU and was posted to 630 sqn, early April 44. I don't have any actual details on the unit itself but would welcome information on your grand father in his time flying Stirlings.
Regards,
John

[chromeboy]

Hi Kevin and welcome to the Stirling forum.

My father, Joe Pollard RAAF, also flew out of 1661 HCU and was posted to 630 sqn, early April 44. I don't have any actual details on the unit itself but would welcome information on your grand father in his time flying Stirlings.
Regards,
John

Hi John,
i'm exploring a number of avenues in trying to get as much info as poss, so if/when i succeed i'll let you know.
cheers,
Kevin