Second Dickie flights

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AlanW
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Re: Second Dickie flights

Post by AlanW »

Just something i picked up on today whilst searching ops for a tour of duty. 61sqdn, from the time they got their Lancs in April 42 up to July 42, had 2nd pilots in place of F/E's.
There is no paralell in warfare, to such courage and determination in the face of danger, over so long a period. Such devotion, should never be forgotten.

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wayne
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Re: Second Dickie flights

Post by wayne »

Hi Alan,
I had noticed the same with early ops of 97 squadron, quite often there were 2nd pilots instead of flight engineers.
I mentioned it on another forum and was told I was mistaken.
I'm glad you have found more proof, thanks :)

Wayne.

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AlanW
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Re: Second Dickie flights

Post by AlanW »

That would'nt be the "other" forum that i'm exiled from, would it? ;)
There is no paralell in warfare, to such courage and determination in the face of danger, over so long a period. Such devotion, should never be forgotten.

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PAFG
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Re: Second Dickie flights

Post by PAFG »

Hi Max, the Stettin op in Jan 44 is in my area of research. Not sure why there hasn't been a matching up of fighter claims/bomber losses, although Bomber command believed that the deception plans that night had been fairly successful, keeping losses to fighters to a minimum. The Interception and Tactics Report says:
The route to STETTIN lay across Denmark along the 56th parallel of latitude as far as the Swedish coast from which point it turned south as if for BERLIN. To further the impression that BERLIN was to be the target for the main force, a few Mosquitoes of the P.F.F. attacked that city anbout 20 minutes before the attack on STETTIN was timed to begin.

This diversion was successful as is shown by the instructions passed by running commentary control to all free-lance night-fighters which were informed that BERLIN was the target shortly after the Mosquito attack commenced. Also, from the point where the main force made landfall over N. GERMANY, at GRIEFSWALD, fighter flares were seen dropping along the supposed route to BERLIN.

Some fighters, however, did follow our bombers to STETTIN but this was the only area where any strength of fighter opposition was encountered and the number of combatsthat ensured was relatively small. It is estimated that during the time when our aircraft were over N. GERMANY, five were shot down by fighters. No fighter losses were seen in any other area.
The Report notes that the number of aircraft seen shot down over the target by unidentified causes (seven) doesn't tally with a moderate flak barrage and the small percentage of flak-damaged a/c. Losses to fighters were generally under-estimated throughout the period, but it does seem that the bulk of the night-fighters went to BERLIN on this occasion.

The Sigint Report for the night gives the timings of main communications to the night-fighters (copied below).

cheers,

Richard
P1020526a (450 x 600).jpg

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wayne
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Re: Second Dickie flights

Post by wayne »

Hi Alan,

"That would'nt be the "other" forum that i'm exiled from, would it? : ;) "

Yes, it was that one. :(

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Re: Second Dickie flights

Post by thegypsy »

My father did two second dickey flights when he joined XV Squadron at RAF Bourn before being let loose on his own.


When his aircraft was later shot down and all the crew were killed he had a 21 year old RCAF as second dickey having his first flight who never got to go on his own.

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Denonline
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Re: Second Dickie flights

Post by Denonline »

Max, I have just spoken to Johnny re- the number of second dickies uindertaken by some pilots.

He experienced the same when he started his first tour with 61 squadron in 1942,In fact they were not second dickies, they were second pilots undertaking duties later undertaken by F/engs. As the F/engs. gradually reached the squadron,the second pilots role was discontinued.

Dennis

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Denonline
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Re: Second Dickie flights

Post by Denonline »

Max,
Further to my previous mesage, Johnny's log book reflects him as second pilot as opposed to second dickie, the former being a duty trip, the latter being familiarisation,

As he recalls it, there was a shortage of the initial intakes of F/engs to enable the new crew complement of one pilot ops, the upshot being that second pilots were required to fly as required with other crews for two pilot trips.

Dennis

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