1:10 model: Who can I honour?

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halifax1
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Re: 1:10 model: Who can I honour?

Post by halifax1 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:59 pm

I am of course finding this all very interesting having built and flown R/C models 30 years back and and now making a return to aeromodelling = but have gone back to basics and indulging in some free flight. I presume you have now sorted your CG position and of course the taxi runs do help one to get a "feel" of the aircraft and whether or not it is safe to get the tail up. As a matter of interest did you build any washout into the wings - this is often helpful in reducing the tendency to tip stall - and side slip particularly in tighter turns.

I do wish you well as this is admirable real modelling - all your own work and all that. Marginally easier than building a Sangar kit perhaps? I agree that in some respects (having done both) the bigger model is easier to detail if you want to go beyond what is supplied by the kit manufacturer, but skills in carpentry, metal work, machining etc. don't come that easy - apart from the electronic technology which I must admit to finding confusing - but that is an age thing. Have you joined (or contacted) the LMA - there are some knowledgeable people there.

Please only fly when you are absolutely ready - far too many times I said "Oh lets give it a go - or just one more flight" and that was the one that hurt!!

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Re: 1:10 model: Who can I honour?

Post by eye4wings » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:42 am

Greeting Halifax1 - good to hear you're back into the only aviation in which the pilot can always walk away from the crash!

Yes, I have about 3 degrees of washout built into the tips. This is my normal minimum as I too have found it most effective in reducing those nasty tip stalls. The other factor of course is that I have the flaps which, when lowered (as they will be when the wheels are down (as both operate from the same control), effectively give me much more.

No, I have not contacted the LMA, although I do know a couple of its members and our local club has enjoyed a talk from one.
For models above a certain weight the CAA require membership of course, but although my models are occasionally of a size that prompts people to think that the weight would be in that area, to date they have not even been half the maximum allowable without membership and certification (of both model and pilot).

As you will be well aware, radio control grew out of the stick and tissue of free flight and diesel engines. The construction techniques developed in line with experience in how to make a model survive a less than perfect arrival back at ground level as motor sizes increased. This was valuable in the early days of RC with sometimes unreliable radio sets and so structures increased in weight.
With the introduction of electric power we were forced to reassess the weight of our airframes as carrying the weight of NiCd batteries and brushed motors which were running at only about 40% efficiency made flight marginal for any model in the 'scale' category. I have only been designing my own models for about 25 years but I well remember those early struggles. Nevertheless we turned out a lot of viable designs because the power source did not force us to build the same amount of strength into a model as would be required to stop an IC engine shaking it apart.
We developed airframes of about half the weight of those used for IC powered models while the LMA was effectively the direct continuation of the line for IC power with size and weight increasing in fairly linear fashion.
I saw the delights of the almost silent and mess-free power source and went in the opposite direction. Why carry around excess structure that only dictated more power input to fly it, with yet more weight, a wing flying at higher incidence and producing more drag that needs more power to overcome it and more structure to carry it... etc. etc...
Today, with the technology of brushless motors and the new high-power batteries available to us we don't need to be quite so economical, but it helps us fly at airspeeds closer to scale if we do.

Thank you for your well-wishes.
And be assured I will try to keep all in control (especially the pilot!) - it has taken me the best part of a year to build the Stirling and I would hate to see it come to a premature end!

The broken drive mounts have been replaced with ones with about double the strength of the original and I now have to bring the other side up to the same standard. One more task is to replace the springs in the oleos with stronger so that they don't bottom out, for which I am dependent on the postal system, so a suitable flying day like tomorrow promises to be will not see the Stirling in the air. I will have to await another.

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Re: 1:10 model: Who can I honour?

Post by eye4wings » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:27 pm

Well gentlemen, the Stirling has now flown.
The link to the video showing the early part of the flight is below.
I must apologise for the non-scale climb out and regret that the all-too-scale landing (in which the port main gear sagged seriously) is not included! However the speed of flight does look gratifyingly slow so I am very pleased with events overall.
Hope you enjoy the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W9wntESP7U
Best wishes to all,
Robin

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Re: 1:10 model: Who can I honour?

Post by K4KittyCrew » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:08 am

Fantastic effort there Robin, especially for a 'second dickie' flight.
great stuff!
John
K for Kitty Crew - Winthorpe, 1661 HCU's - stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org/
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"

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Re: 1:10 model: Who can I honour?

Post by eye4wings » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:03 am

Thank you John... but I'm not sure I understand the second dickie reference!

There was nobody else with their hands on the sticks - or to call on for assistance.

I know some of the larger models are flown by two pilots (because I have seen them on YouTube) but I think that is probably more because they needed the extra channels a second transmitter provided.
My Stirling operates at the moment on only five channels (of my possible 6) because all four motors are operated simultaneously on one and the flaps operate on the gear channel, leaving me the option of separating them later. I may well do this because flying speed was lower than I had expected which meant that I did not feel the need for flaps on the landing (although they were disabled for the first flight to avoid the expected change in flying trim).

Robin

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Re: 1:10 model: Who can I honour?

Post by K4KittyCrew » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:53 am

Robin, I used the term 'second dickie' as reference for pilots going up on there first operation. During Bomber Command operations, a pilot would fly his first operation with an experience crew / pilot before flying with his own crew............... as shown here.
Cheers,
John
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Re: 1:10 model: Who can I honour?

Post by eye4wings » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:08 pm

Ah! I think I get your drift now!
I was thinking of the initial test flight as being the one made prior to the ATA delivering the aircraft to the MU for equipping with armaments and delivery to squadron, at which point it would not have worn its squadron codes of course. Since it is in operational configuration and the aircraft was always piloted by Gp.Capt. W E Surplice in that role I would be second dickie to him.
Just a matter of getting our respective reveries in synchronisation!
Generous of him to let me fly it for an entire flight wasn't it?!

Perhaps he thought me capable?
There! - and I thought I was honouring him!

Robin

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Re: 1:10 model: Who can I honour?

Post by GuyMassey » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:53 pm

There I was, at work (self employed thank God) and I got distracted by your awesome build. An hour later and no work done.... What a fantastic job and I cannot wait to show my 90yr old Stirling veteran father!!! He has been riveted to the Stirling Project's build, and only last week said how sad he was that he would never see one fly again.

I have one very slight nit pick... To my knowledge the MkIV never had a lower window on the starboard side of the nose. This was removed during the manufacture of the MkIII. Early MkIV aircraft were converted MkIII's and the window was never re-instated when new-build MkIV's rolled off the production line. This information came from my dad, who flew all of the marks. I later checked and found that sure enough, in the few photographs that exist of the MkIV starboard side, the window is indeed missing. However many later artworks in books have fallen into the trap of amending colour schemes and overall shape without reference to window position... I am of course perfectly willing to be proved wrong!!! lol

Where do you fly your beauty? Is it ever likely to find its way down to the South West???

Green with envy!

Guy :mrgreen:
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Re: 1:10 model: Who can I honour?

Post by eye4wings » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:41 pm

Hello Guy,
Thankyou for not only the kind words but the info about the window.
It is not until a mistake has been made that we modellers find out that it is a mistake. If only all the required information was 'out there' and readily to hand before we started! It is remarkable how few photos are available of the starboard side of the nose. The only one I have showing any detail is 'Macroberts reply' which of course was not a Mk.IV.
If it is the window I have red circled below the assumption that it had been continued from the earlier marks was what made me decide to only put the 'Shooting Stars' name on the port side and not the crew list, but in fact I have nothing to confirm that even that appeared on that side. It was all guesswork and supposition.
Art work is normally only of port side views and that is not 100% reliable. It was only the Nerwegians salvaging the side from the crash that saved me perpetuating a mis-spelled name - as you will have seen earlier in the thread.

I hope you have your father's reminiscences written down for posterity. It always seems to be when they are no longer around that one thinks of all the things one should have asked those who were there.
I have an audio tape of some of my father's D-day (and after) tales, but they tend to be the memorable events recorded, the humdrum daily routine never seems to be judged worth recording. So much experience just gets lost.
I suppose your father wouldn't have known this actual machine?...

The model has still only flown that once and I have working up to do before it becomes fully operational. I suspect the nearest to you that she might make an appearance in the normal way of things is RAF Colerne where there is an annual fly-in organised by the club there. Being a longish drive though the weather forecast has to be very good in order to encourage me to set out in the first place.

The second photo is of a gust catching the model just before touchdown... a heart-in-mouth moment... I should have known not to attempt a cross-wind landing with a Stirling!... and, yes I bent the port leg!
Attachments
Stirling 276a.jpg
Slightly crosswind and more gusty than I thought!
Stirling 276a.jpg (243.29 KiB) Viewed 2122 times
Stirling 221a.jpg
This the window that wasn't?
Stirling 221a.jpg (108.63 KiB) Viewed 2122 times

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Re: 1:10 model: Who can I honour?

Post by GuyMassey » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:53 pm

Oops!

Sorry, I have been wholly wrapped up with a family crisis for the last couple of months and wholly failed to see your reply! Yes that is indeed the suspect window.

I have indeed researched my father's life and parts of it have been posted on this forum. There was also quite a large article that father wrote with my help in the Stirling Society's newsletter a couple of issues ago.

I doubt that I will get to see you fly your beauty now, sadly my wife has been diagnosed with liver cancer, and so I now find myself being a full time carer as well as wage earner. Still I will keep an eye open for your updates and hopefully I will see a video appear on YouTube of it soon!

Regards

Guy
"The purpose of life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well-preserved body, but rather to Slide in Sideways, completely used up, yelling and screaming, what a ride!" anon.

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