Fortress III of 214 sqdn, 100 Group

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ME453
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Re: Fortress III of 214 sqdn, 100 Group

Post by ME453 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:31 pm

highnoon1966 wrote:All the pictures have disappeared, something to do with the Photobucket site update maybe.
Hmmm, I think it was because I created a "Fortress build" file in PB then moved them into it....serves me right for being so damned organised!
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halifax1
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Re: Fortress III of 214 sqdn, 100 Group

Post by halifax1 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:31 pm

Hmmmmm... thought I would drop in. I am only a short distance from Oulton from which 214 operated. Have you got Streetly's book on the aircraft of 100 Group? Invaluable for all the aerials etc. and other gizmos. The aircraft varied in their colour scheme - some camo - some all over black. Also some crews painted the bottom half of the cockpit "glass' black as well as a hedge against searchlight dazzle. The interior appears mainly to have been "green" - I know because I have some bits we recovered from a mini dig - and also some perspex with black paint on it. The Mc/G mount in the nose glazing was plated over and quite conspicuous.

The aircraft in your picture is at Foulsham - also nearby. I am not sure if it is a 214 a/c at the moment. I am not sure 192 who were at Foulsham had B17's.

Have you decided which aircraft you will do? KJ103 might be suitable; Dark Green/Earth upper and black lower. Squadron code (214) was BU-M 8-)

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ME453
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Re: Fortress III of 214 sqdn, 100 Group

Post by ME453 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:20 pm

Hello David, it's good to see that you're still alive and kicking. Yes I have Martin Streetly's book on the aircraft of 100 Group, I'm using it as my bible for the model. He says the forward sections (nav and flight deck) were interior green but the rest aft of these sections were silver. The picture was taken from the 214 squadron website so I'm assuming it was that squadron, but I'm modelling HB815 BU-J, shot down by an intruder on 3 March 1945 (Operation Gisela), so obviously airborne and giving RCM cover to the squadrons operating against the DEK. I'm currently reading "Even when the sparrows are walking" by Laurie Brettingham, an excellent book about the origin, development and history of 100 Group. Bylaugh Hall and Dereham are mentioned frequently. I've made good progress with many aspects of the kit and will post some pictures shortly, but in the meantime, here's my workbench etc with Fortress bits on it:

Image

Best regards
Max
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halifax1
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Re: Fortress III of 214 sqdn, 100 Group

Post by halifax1 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:20 pm

Interesting you are doing BU-J. That was the aircraft in shot down as you say on the 3/4th March 45. And the one of which I have some pieces. It crashed just outside of the airfield. It was about to land and due to a damaged aircraft behind was asked to go round again. Whilst it was climbing away it was shot down. The aircraft clipped a tree and burst into flames on hitting the ground. I have spoken to people who were present. Martin Bowman credited the kill to a pilot called Dorling I think but later Boiten said it was clear he was elsewhere. You will will know all about that.

As to the interior colour - as always it can be debated for ever. Some ex aircrew people I have spoken to admit they cannot say for sure what was the decor of their surroundings because they simply did not notice. Certainly there is some "green" on the bits I have - but it is not possible to say where they may have been positioned.The Americans in particular had a thing about "paint" means weight and so quite likely the main part of the interior was natural finish. I doubt anyone can prove you wrong. However some of the perspex I have does have black paint on it. It is "flat" so could be a "window" painted over or part of the windshield or cockpit area.

Someone I know is the nephew of one of the crew who, bar two who were thrown clear, were all killed. In fact he is shown in the photo of the crew of BU-N in Streetley's book - p62 - 5th from left. He was seconded to BU-J that night because the usual crewman was ill. Bit sad really but not unusual of course.

I have a picture of the pilot if you don't (P/O Bennett) but it is an earlier one as he is shown as a Flt/Sgt, and a list of the crew.

Nice to see you are getting with it and have not lost your touch. I am still playing with the balsa toys. Reliving my childhood and all that. But age is an impediment. Tried towing a glider up last Sunday - last time I did it 30 plus years ago - a radio thermal soarer which was much heavier it was a piece of cake to run a couple of hundred yards or so. Now a couple of feet seems quite an effort. So some training I think.
One of my peers regularly runs six or seven miles for fun - we are sure he needs treatment!

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Re: Fortress III of 214 sqdn, 100 Group

Post by ME453 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:13 am

Interesting stuff David. Yes it seems to be well recorded that many, but not all of 214's Fortresses had the nose section windows blacked out, which mine will, and the aft window and lower half of the next one forward half blacked out too on the flight deck. There seems no consistency though so I feel at liberty to paint as I wish, within limits of course!
I have the pilot recorded as an Aussie, W/O Lindsay Joseph Odgers. What caused me more trouble was researching and building the flame traps fitted to each exhaust, done the best I can on both counts!
Regards old chap
Max
PS please try to avoid the temptation at your considerably advanced age and condition to take up running. You'd look so silly earing a head band.
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Re: Fortress III of 214 sqdn, 100 Group

Post by ME453 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:46 pm

Nope I'm doing HB799 BUK! Been to the NA today and looked at 214 squadron ORBs. HB799 was on a Jostle op at Ladbergen that night, trying to jam the SN2 radars of the Nachtjagd fighters, so that all ties in rather well. And you're right David, Bennett Is shown as the pilot of HB815 so I'll have to investigate my source for Odgers as the pilot.
Regards
Max :D
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Re: Fortress III of 214 sqdn, 100 Group

Post by ME453 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:18 pm

OK, a little update. Firstly after my visit to the National Archives yesterday as I said I've changed my mind about the identification of the aircraft, she'll now be BU-K, HB799 since the squadron ORBs show her as being on a Jostle-jamming op at Ladbergen. Jostle was a huge cylinder carried in the bomb-bay, its purpose was to jam the SN2 radars of the German night-fighters so that their bomber targets couldn't be located:

Image

The leading edges of the wings have several large ducts on them, looking at pictures suggests a grid or filter in each so I've used a length of fine net curtain placed inside the wing to represent this - I think it'll look OK once sprayed up. Also shown are the flame-dampers fitted to all 100 Group aircraft, again they should blend in a bit more once painted.

Image

Image

Progress also with the flightdeck and navigator/special operator area. All the bombing gear was stripped out of the Fortress to accommodate the extra bits of kit, I've done a token representation of this on the nav's desk and the bulkhead since not a lot will be visible when she's closed up:

Image

Image

Apologies for the rubbish pictures, taken in low light and without a tripod - shoddy workmanship I know!!

Max
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Re: Fortress III of 214 sqdn, 100 Group

Post by PAFG » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:44 pm

Still looks pretty good Max - and a great choice of subject now you've researched a little further!

Looking forward to the next instalment...

Richard

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Re: Fortress III of 214 sqdn, 100 Group

Post by halifax1 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:32 pm

PS please try to avoid the temptation at your considerably advanced age and condition to take up running. You'd look so silly earing a head band

I'm not that daft - I will wear some suitable clothing as well, Dummy!!

PS Model is looking good notwithstanding of the workmanship.

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Re: Fortress III of 214 sqdn, 100 Group

Post by ME453 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:15 pm

halifax1 wrote:Dummy!!
No thanks, stopped using one of those a few years ago. Sucker!!
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