Airfix Lancaster II

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smudgersmith218
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Re: Airfix Lancaster II

Post by smudgersmith218 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:17 pm

Hi Mike,

I am not wishing to contradict what you have been told on other forums but a few background details may help.



By this time late September 1944, No.514 was only equipped with 4 GH sets, (No.218 Squadron had the task of teaching No.514 Squadron) in fact by October 1st there was only 40 set available in No.3 Group! Now it is not beyond the realms of possibility that DS670 was fitted out with GH, but why equip an aircraft that was being almost immediately phased out in place of the Mk.I & Mk.III.
Secondly, the GH rudder markings were gradually making an appearance from very late September 1944, it was not until mid-October 1944 that it was standard, and it was after the Bonn operation of 18th October that it was agreed that the group would specialise in “Daylight” precision raids.
I would appreciate Mike that if you do ever find a photo you could let me know or confirmation on GH marking being applied to DS670 as in 30 years of researching No.3 Group it’s a new one on me!!

Kind regards

Steve
No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron 1918-1945
The Nomads

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Re: Airfix Lancaster II

Post by CavOk » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:42 pm

Hi Steve

Many many thanks for your input this is truly an education. Have I read this correctly DS670 has become LL670?
I've read that Lancaster's could and did change identities while under going repair, is this the case here? If so it explains conflicts in some published sources.
I wonder if it's possible for two different aircraft to have the same serial number but different codes? Perhaps after the demise of one the identity is transferred to another? I'm trying to be kind to those experts that have published details they believe to be correct but don't tally.
Perhaps this discussion would be better moved to another section?
Thanks again Steve this is most illuminating.
Best wishes

Mike

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smudgersmith218
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Re: Airfix Lancaster II

Post by smudgersmith218 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:44 pm

Mike,

No DS670 did not become LL670, typo my part !

OK Mike, I have attached a few pdfs which hopefully will clarify.

Copy of the AM Form 78 Movement Card which records the overshoot at RAF Waterbeach and the damage sustained. It also shows the date that the Lancaster returned to its parent unit No.514 Squadron. The other two pdfs show the ORB upon its return for the three ops, note Calais op D2 (11.09.44 Kamen - 17.09.44 - Abortive - 20.09.44 Calais) ORB entry for the overshoot K2.
IMG_4821.JPG
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Re: Airfix Lancaster II

Post by CavOk » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:32 am

Hi Steve
Thanks for the latest info, if I've read this correctly by Sept 25th LL670 had left the Squadron. I note that at an earlier time she was coded JI.D2 as indeed was another BII DS736 which was lost 20th Feb 1944. I can't speak for Xtradecal or the other sources but certainly yours seems to be the most reliable info. As for those GH bars I wonder if they were left over from when the aircraft was with 115 Squadron? I've no idea where the idea came from but there are a few profiles around depicting LL670 with bars, it must have come from somewhere, meanwhile I accept it seems unlikely.
Thanks for your help

Mike

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Re: Airfix Lancaster II

Post by smudgersmith218 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:46 pm

Hi Mike,

No 115 Squadron would not have applied the GH bars as it was not equipped with it when LL670 was with the squadron. The only possibility I can see is that while LL670 was under repair she may have had the GH bars applied, but why equip a Mk.B.II with GH when the squadron was converting at a steady pace over to the Mk.I & Mk.III Lancaster, it just does not make sense!

I am very interested in any feed back.

Kind regards

Steve
No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron 1918-1945
The Nomads

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Re: Airfix Lancaster II

Post by CavOk » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:08 pm

Hi Steve
Thanks again for giving me your time, I've no idea about the GH bars a Google of JI.K2 reveals all kinds of unattributed information but there is a pilots log book which shows a K2 being flown regularly the link is here http://www.hilaroad.com/RCAF/pages.html .
Perhaps this might be helpful
Regards

Mike

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Re: Airfix Lancaster II

Post by smudgersmith218 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:04 pm

Hi Mike,

I was aware of this great site, but did not think to look !

The K2 is LL670 flown by F/O Campbell RCAF as recorded in the log book, but note that they are all before the 27th July incident.

I have added another piece of information regarding when 514 was to be equipped with GH, this document is date July 15th just 12 days before LL670 pranged. There is no way she was fitted with GH in that time, nor was any other 514 Lanc !

Kind regards

Steve
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Re: Airfix Lancaster II

Post by CavOk » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:46 pm

Hi Steve
This is great stuff; in summary if I remove the GH Bars the model is accurate?

Mike

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smudgersmith218
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Re: Airfix Lancaster II

Post by smudgersmith218 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:13 pm

Mike,

Unless someone can supply a photograph I am of the opinion that the GH markings are inaccurate for this aircraft. I am hoping someone can prove otherwise.

I think that without them the Lancaster is an excellent example of a standard Mk.II as used by No.514 during the summer of 1944.

A great build and a truly great mark of Lancaster in my opinion.

If I can be of any further help, just let me know.

Cheers

Steve
No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron 1918-1945
The Nomads

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Re: Airfix Lancaster II

Post by CavOk » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:22 pm

Addendum - following correspondence with the 3 Group Bomber Command Historian it seems highly unlikely that any Lancaster BIIs carried GH Bars in 1944. These bars appeared in late summer early autumn in1944 by which time the BIIs had been replaced. Thanks Steve for your valuable help and input.
Image

Image

Image
Hence for the sake of accuracy I've removed the yellow GH Bars from this model.
Hope you like her

Mike

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