Scarecrow / schrage musik photos .........
- K4KittyCrew
- Air Chief Marshal (RAAF)
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Scarecrow / schrage musik photos .........
Here are some interesting photos and images. Also a Focke Wulf 190 with upward firing guns. ( last photo)
John
John
K for Kitty Crew - Winthorpe, 1661 HCU's - stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org/
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"
- smudgersmith218
- 3 Group Researcher
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Re: Scarecrow / schrage musik photos .........
Hi John,
In October 1998 I interviewed a rear gunner of No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron who related an encounter with a FW190 over Hannover in 1943. This night they were at 16000ft ( yes in a Stirling ) and a few miles from the target area when a FW190 was observed about 200 yards astern and about 1500ft below. The rear gunner reported this to the skipper who gave the customary instructions. The FW190 did not attack but was observed flying erratically and not in the customary fashion. The FW190 passed almost underneath the Stirling giving the rear gunner an ideal opportunity to engage, however discretion being the better part of valour the skipper ordered the gunners to hold fire. Such was the visibility on this night the gunner was 100% positive that the FW190 had two upward firing cannons. My notes from then suggest that he may have been mistaken; however just viewing the FW190 had me re-checking my interviews from the late 1990’s. Sad to relate that 90% of the members are no longer with us. Anyway my question, when was the FW190 equipped with upward firing cannons and could the rear gunner have been correct after all. !!!
In October 1998 I interviewed a rear gunner of No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron who related an encounter with a FW190 over Hannover in 1943. This night they were at 16000ft ( yes in a Stirling ) and a few miles from the target area when a FW190 was observed about 200 yards astern and about 1500ft below. The rear gunner reported this to the skipper who gave the customary instructions. The FW190 did not attack but was observed flying erratically and not in the customary fashion. The FW190 passed almost underneath the Stirling giving the rear gunner an ideal opportunity to engage, however discretion being the better part of valour the skipper ordered the gunners to hold fire. Such was the visibility on this night the gunner was 100% positive that the FW190 had two upward firing cannons. My notes from then suggest that he may have been mistaken; however just viewing the FW190 had me re-checking my interviews from the late 1990’s. Sad to relate that 90% of the members are no longer with us. Anyway my question, when was the FW190 equipped with upward firing cannons and could the rear gunner have been correct after all. !!!
Last edited by smudgersmith218 on Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron 1918-1945
The Nomads
The Nomads
Re: Scarecrow / schrage musik photos .........
I am surprised at the lack of information and photo's on this FW190 variant.
There is no paralell in warfare, to such courage and determination in the face of danger, over so long a period. Such devotion, should never be forgotten.
Re: Scarecrow / schrage musik photos .........
Yes - not heard of this before but it makes good sense.
R
R
- ME453
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Re: Scarecrow / schrage musik photos .........
I've never read or heard of an Fw190 being equipped with Schrage Muzik, and common sense makes it seem impossible given the size of the cannon plus mounting, not to mention the additional weight and the havoc that it would play with the balance of the fighter. I would suggest that what the gunner may have seen would be the antennae for the radar. I can't say with any certainty that fighters had them along the fuselage at any point, but it's more plausible than cannon! And not to devalue what Steve's R/G observed, but to illustrate how they can be mistaken, I also interviewed a gunner who admitted to firing on an aircraft approaching from behind out of cloud, only to discover that it was the shadow of their own aircraft projected by the light conditions onto the cloud!
There is an outside chance that he may have seen the following, though as stated below, this was an experimental device:
An outgrowth of the Schräge Musik concept was the development of a number of vertically firing Sondergeräte, a term which can be translated as "special devices". These consisted of a number of recoilless single-shot guns, firing 30mm or 55mm ammunition. They were triggered by photo-sensitive cell. In theory, all the pilot had to do was pass at a suitable distance (100m to 50m) under a bomber. Use of these weapons remained experimental, and after the war nobody continued the concept.
There is an outside chance that he may have seen the following, though as stated below, this was an experimental device:
An outgrowth of the Schräge Musik concept was the development of a number of vertically firing Sondergeräte, a term which can be translated as "special devices". These consisted of a number of recoilless single-shot guns, firing 30mm or 55mm ammunition. They were triggered by photo-sensitive cell. In theory, all the pilot had to do was pass at a suitable distance (100m to 50m) under a bomber. Use of these weapons remained experimental, and after the war nobody continued the concept.
www.ordinarycrew.co.uk
Dedicated to the crew of Lancaster ME453 467 squadron
Dedicated to the crew of Lancaster ME453 467 squadron
- ME453
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Re: Scarecrow / schrage musik photos .........
Some views of a schrage-muzik equipped Bf110-G4 found on a train by the Yanks. Note the date of the report, the discovery of this aircraft and its armament was not passed on to the RAF who at that stage of the war were still uncertain about what was causing so many of their bomber losses. I wonder how many crews would have been saved had they known for sure?
www.ordinarycrew.co.uk
Dedicated to the crew of Lancaster ME453 467 squadron
Dedicated to the crew of Lancaster ME453 467 squadron
Re: Scarecrow / schrage musik photos .........
Can't remember the date in July 44 when the SN2/Schrage Musik Ju88 fell into RAF hands, but both are described in full in a B.C. Tactical Sub-Committee meeting on 11th July 1944. Air Ministry put a letter out about it on 21st July, but I think the news would have reached operational stations after the 11 July Conf.
R
R
- K4KittyCrew
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Re: Scarecrow / schrage musik photos .........
Further details on the FW190 variant ............
John
John
K for Kitty Crew - Winthorpe, 1661 HCU's - stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org/
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"
- K4KittyCrew
- Air Chief Marshal (RAAF)
- Posts: 3635
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:55 am
- Location: Gold Coast, Queensland - Australia
Re: Scarecrow / schrage musik photos .........
This is some serious gun !!!!!!!!
John
John
K for Kitty Crew - Winthorpe, 1661 HCU's - stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org/
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"
- K4KittyCrew
- Air Chief Marshal (RAAF)
- Posts: 3635
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:55 am
- Location: Gold Coast, Queensland - Australia
Re: Scarecrow / schrage musik photos .........
Interested in hearing from members as to whether they seen such a weapon ( photo above) before?
Cheers,
John
Cheers,
John
K for Kitty Crew - Winthorpe, 1661 HCU's - stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org/
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"
630 Squadron - East Kirkby
" There is nothing glorious about war with the exception of those who served us so valiantly"