F/O Victor Charles Sanders 630 Squadron
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:15 pm
Hello all,
I hope this is the right place to post this. I am doing research into my late grandfather's service during World War II and have hit some walls with my research. I have done a fair amount of research so far, and am continuing to do so, but I am hoping that
Here is what I have confirmed:
- Service Number 164600. (source: London Gazette)
- He wore an Observer brevet on his uniform, and that he went through Officer Cadet training as indicated by a white insert in his Field Service cap. (source: Family Photos)
- I have record of him being appointed to either Pilot Officer or Flying Officer on September 24, 1944; and later Flt. Lt. March 24, 1946. This coincides with the record of events as described in my grandfather's letters. (source: London Gazette)
Here is what I believe to be true but cannot confirm:
- That he served as a Navigator with 630 Squadron at RAF East Kirkby. He even recalled the incident of April 17, 1945 were a bomb was accidentally detonated on the tarmac. His letters also indicated that he was due to begin training on the Avro Lincoln in anticipation of joining the war in the Pacific/Japan, but that ended with Japan's surrender. (source: Grandfather's Letters).
Now, to where I have problems.
I have the Record of Events from the Operational Record Books for 630 Squadron (November 1943 - April 1945) and some for 57 Squadron from the National Archives, and am in the process of getting the Summary of Events. So far I cannot find any mention of him. I have looked through all crew positions, and not just Navigators in order to be thorough. I did find a crewman Sgt. E Sanders (Navigator), but that is the closest I have come so far.
I was talking with another researcher, who indicated that if he was wearing an Observer brevet, that he would not be listed as a Navigator, and instead would have served as an observer alongside the Navigator; and that Observers typically were posted to Path Finder Force Squadrons. In looking at the Record of Events, I can find no mention of an observer serving on any aircrew with 630. To make matters more interesting/confusing some more anecdotal recollections from my family members have my grandfather serving with the PFF or on Mosquitos. However, my grandfather's letters contradict this belief.
The questions I would like to put out to this forum are:
- Would the Summary of Events contain reference to aircrew not listed in the Record of Events?
- Would Observers be listed as Navigators, especially if they filled this role? Personally I believe if they served as a Navigator, they would have been listed as a Navigator.
- Are there any other ways to find out non-aircrew listings for RAF squadrons.
- Finally, and the most obvious, has anyone come across mention of a Victor Sanders in their own research? Only if it springs to mind, I don't want to have people going out of their way to do research that I can be doing myself, just anything that can point me in a good direction.
I will attempt to access records from the MOD, but as a Grandson I am not sure I fit the criteria of next of kin.
Sorry if this rambled on too much.
Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.
Charles Sanders
I hope this is the right place to post this. I am doing research into my late grandfather's service during World War II and have hit some walls with my research. I have done a fair amount of research so far, and am continuing to do so, but I am hoping that
Here is what I have confirmed:
- Service Number 164600. (source: London Gazette)
- He wore an Observer brevet on his uniform, and that he went through Officer Cadet training as indicated by a white insert in his Field Service cap. (source: Family Photos)
- I have record of him being appointed to either Pilot Officer or Flying Officer on September 24, 1944; and later Flt. Lt. March 24, 1946. This coincides with the record of events as described in my grandfather's letters. (source: London Gazette)
Here is what I believe to be true but cannot confirm:
- That he served as a Navigator with 630 Squadron at RAF East Kirkby. He even recalled the incident of April 17, 1945 were a bomb was accidentally detonated on the tarmac. His letters also indicated that he was due to begin training on the Avro Lincoln in anticipation of joining the war in the Pacific/Japan, but that ended with Japan's surrender. (source: Grandfather's Letters).
Now, to where I have problems.
I have the Record of Events from the Operational Record Books for 630 Squadron (November 1943 - April 1945) and some for 57 Squadron from the National Archives, and am in the process of getting the Summary of Events. So far I cannot find any mention of him. I have looked through all crew positions, and not just Navigators in order to be thorough. I did find a crewman Sgt. E Sanders (Navigator), but that is the closest I have come so far.
I was talking with another researcher, who indicated that if he was wearing an Observer brevet, that he would not be listed as a Navigator, and instead would have served as an observer alongside the Navigator; and that Observers typically were posted to Path Finder Force Squadrons. In looking at the Record of Events, I can find no mention of an observer serving on any aircrew with 630. To make matters more interesting/confusing some more anecdotal recollections from my family members have my grandfather serving with the PFF or on Mosquitos. However, my grandfather's letters contradict this belief.
The questions I would like to put out to this forum are:
- Would the Summary of Events contain reference to aircrew not listed in the Record of Events?
- Would Observers be listed as Navigators, especially if they filled this role? Personally I believe if they served as a Navigator, they would have been listed as a Navigator.
- Are there any other ways to find out non-aircrew listings for RAF squadrons.
- Finally, and the most obvious, has anyone come across mention of a Victor Sanders in their own research? Only if it springs to mind, I don't want to have people going out of their way to do research that I can be doing myself, just anything that can point me in a good direction.
I will attempt to access records from the MOD, but as a Grandson I am not sure I fit the criteria of next of kin.
Sorry if this rambled on too much.
Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.
Charles Sanders