Log Book Group to 570 Sqn Stirlings! on E bay

[Nocturna mors]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW2-RAF-Bombe ... 548wt_1344

Rgds NM

[K4KittyCrew]

Thanks for posting this NM .............. I'm a strong believer that logbooks are a wealth of information and should be open to the public to read and admired, not lock away collecting dust and ignored.
That is why I try to post any available logbooks on the forum so everybody can have access to it and have a conversation about certain points of interest and pay our respects to that particular individual.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
John

[Nocturna mors]

Thanks for the pictures John I have just put the magnifier over the code letters of the crashed Stirling. The codes are possibly i , j , l or even no 1 for the a/c call sign.
The unit codes being NC or NG. Would these codes relate to the HCU based at RAF Tilstock? As you know, OTU,s HCU,s etc are notoriously difficult to get information regarding Sqn codes.

I live within 30 miles of Tilstock airfield known locally as Prees heath,which is still in use as a parachute school and the occasional microlights.......a far cry from its wartime days. There are a lot of RAF buildings left including the watch tower,hangars and domestic sites.....some pics http://www.midlandsheritage.co.uk/milit ... stock.html Thats the great thing about the UK......its all on our doorstep. I have made a few trips to Tilstock over the years

I totally agree with your comments regarding log books . They are a priceless for the detail some of them contain......a lot better than Sqn ORB,s
Unfortunately i have only two in my possesion, one is a Flt Engineers, 170 sqn Hemswell 30 ops 44 to 45. The other belonged to another F/E based at Croft 44 to 45. I have sold a couple in recent years and have been concentrating on BC Medal groups. I have one such group that belonged to a chief engineering officer who was unfortunately killed along with the entire crew of the 196 Sqn Stirling, when it crashed in the Wash during an air test. Although the engineering officer had a ground based trade, he still received the ACE star. Members of the Stirling crew were due to be decorated just prior to their deaths. Flying Officer Deans and Sergeant Butts were due the DFC & DFM respectively for the following action.

One night in September 1943, Flying Officer Deans and Sergeant Butts were pilot and rear gunner of an aircraft which attached Mannheim. Shortly after the bombs were released the aircraft was attacked by enemy fighters. In the first attack the bomber was hit and Sergeant Butts\' guns suddenly failed to operate. Nevertheless this airman cooly gave his pilot directions in offensive action and at the same time cleared his guns of their stoppages. Further attacks were made by the enemy fighters but owing to Sergeant Butts\' skilful commentary Flying Officer Deans so manoeuvered his aircraft that one of the attackers was shot down. This officer and airman displayed great skill and courage.

Note: On 1 June 1943 he was in the crew of Wellington X, HE163, No.196 Squadron which crashed at Leconfield. Captain was F/O J.L Deans, navigator P/O A.E. Bothwell, bomb aimer P//O J.R. Vickers, WOP/AG Flight Sergeant S.A. Hurrell (all RAF) and rear gunner Sergeant N. Butts. Aircraft was on a mine laying mission with reduced petrol load. At 2,000 feet the starboard engine lost power and boost. F/O Deans made a circuit, overshot field, dropped mines in an adjacent field and crash landed. No injuries but aircraft burnt out.

Circumstances of Death: Stirling EF960 had been test flown two days earlier and a pronounced shuddering in flight reported. F/O J.L. Deans made a few adjustments and the Station Engineer Officer ordered another test. The airplane was airborne at 1050 hours for an air test and not seen again. Crashed twelve miles off Kings Lyn, Norfolk. Crew were 17926 F/O J.L. Deans, DFC (pilot), 132777 F/O F.J. Chapman (navigator), 1609264 Sergeant K.L. Wallace (flight engineer), 1287949 Sergeant T. McDonnell (mid-upper gunner), R88361 Flight Sergeant N. Butts, DFM (rear gunner) and 111157 F/L J.G. Griffiths (Squadron Engineer Officer). At the time of the crash, F/O Deans had 102 hours 30 minutes on Stirlings.

......with many thanks to Hugh Halliday and "alieneyes"

Most of the crew including F/lt Griffiths have no known graves and are remembered at Runnymede. One body was washed ashore months later. I will get around to uploading F/lt Griffiths photograph to the Aircrew rememberance society along with the information i have found out so far.

"We shall remember them"

Rgds NM

[AlanW]

The code is OG- which was one used by 1665 CU, based at Tilstock, this would in turn, link in with 570sqdn as at the time, i believe 1665 CU was training SD crews.
Alan.

[Nocturna mors]

Many thanks Alan, ..........a trip to spec savers me thinks May i ask your source for the 1665 CU codes?

On the subject of Tilstock and Stirlings. In the PSL Action Stations series of books on airfields. under the section on Tilstock,there is a great picture of a Stirling that has overshot and ended up on the main road.

Rgds NM

[AlanW]

Hi,
I've got 1665 CU using 3 different codes OG, NY and FO. This accident must have happened between Jan 44 and March 45 when the unit was based at Tilstock. Only problem is that being an SD unit, it is not recorded in Chorley. I wonder if Bruno may have any info on it. As for my source, it's a huge mess of notebooks and bits of paper building up on my desk

[K4KittyCrew]

Circumstances of Death: Stirling EF960 had been test flown two days earlier and a pronounced shuddering in flight reported.

Hi Guys,

From MJF Bowyer book, The Stirling Story page 369 .............. the codes EF only go up to 518, ie: EF518 .......... so i check the next serial code, being EH and that starts at 875, as in EH875, so I found that EH960 seem to match this incident. as listed ..................

EH960 - X / 196 Sqn 9/ 8/ 1943, FTR 17/ 10 / 1943 ....... crashed in the Wash, control problems.
_________________________________________________________________________
John

[AlanW]

Had a google around for 1665 CU, and further to my previous post i can now confirm the code OG via this web page
http://www.raf-lincolnshire.info/1665hcu/1665hcu.htm so looks more likely to be an aircraft from that unit.

[Bruno]

Hello,

Thanks for the pictures John I have just put the magnifier over the code letters of the crashed Stirling. The codes are possibly i , j , l or even no 1 for the a/c call sign.
The unit codes being NC or NG. Would these codes relate to the HCU based at RAF Tilstock? As you know, OTU,s HCU,s etc are notoriously difficult to get information regarding Sqn codes.

The crashed Stirling is EF117, a Stirling III of 1665 HCU (the 38 Group Conversion Unit to 4 engined bombers) piloted by Flight Sergeant W J Jennings RNZAF (you can see his name on some photos of the Log Book on the Ebay page).
EF117 crashed during a training sortie on 5th May 1944 because the starboard inner engine caught fire. After landing the other three engines caught fire and the blaze spread to the rest of the aircraft. None of the crew was hurt seriously.
Jennings was recommended for his coolness and initiative in getting his crew out of the aircraft and his handling of the situation.
Unfortunately I don't have the letter of the aircraft.

To have this 38 Group log book would be a dream for me but his place would be better in a Museum.
Some years ago I tried to buy one 570 Squadron Log Book on Ebay. In a few hours the price went up to the sky! Finally the Log Book (with some photos and documents) were won at a price really high for most of us. I looked at the Ebay history of the buyer and I could contact him to ask if he had any connection with the crew or the Squadron. He just replied that he bought it for the pleasure (this Ebayer bought plenty of different memorabilia each day!). So I consider that the info in these documents are lost and if the family of this person at his death has also no interest in RAF it'll be a double lost.

An other time, a man sold all the WWII 570 Squadron's documents and objects of his father piece by piece on Ebay. I wrote to him to keep at least his father's Log Book. I think it did it because I didn't see the Log Book on Ebay...

Kind regards.

Bruno

[Nocturna mors]

Re-listed at a £150 start http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW2-RAF-Bombe ... 548wt_1344

Rgds Tom