Coned at Bremen

[R5868]

On the 6th October 1944 S/ldr Eric Langlois and his crew, of 463 Squadron, were coned by searchlights over Bremen. He immediately took violent evasive action and finally, after what seemed like ages, managed to break clear of the searchlights. On their arrival back at Waddington their rear gunner Flt/Lt Charley Ellis confessed that he had been so violently ill during the evasive manoeuvres that he wished he would die and it was only looking down at the inferno below him that prevented him from turning his turret around and bailing out.
Kerry

[Denonline]

I appreciate his situation, the corkscrew could be quite violent &disorientating in the rear turret. In corkscrew situations the gunner would have been too preoccupied to notice the manouvres. In his situation all that he could have done was to keep his fingers crossed. He also would have needed to keep one eye closed durng the searchlight glare to protect his night vision in that eye. To add to the disorientation situation the only part of the a/c typically.visible to the rear gunner being the tailplane unit.

In dark or searchlight conditions where there was no visible horizon, it was quite impossible to determine the position of our a/c.
To put it politely, "Base over Apex."

Dennis

[halifax1]

I must admit Dennis, I have often wondered just how traumatic such a manoeuvre would be for a rear gunner. Until one has "done a few" even dramatic manoeuvres are pretty startling when located near to the C of G. But in the tail - where the "whipping effect" must be considerable - YUK - hate to think. I have spoken to Shackleton Crewe members who claim that the tail end can be seen rotating when viewed from the astrodome. And watching it could create nausea. Sturdy chaps you rear gunners??

[ME453]

There's a bit of dialogue on a couple of other forums about an account of a rear gunner in a Lancaster which was damaged returning from an op. Below I've paraphrased an account written by the rear gunner with the contentious area in red......any thoughts Dennis about the "sting"???

.....we decided to try to get back to base in East Kirkby but we were probably too low and in a desperate situation. At that moment the perimeter lights of an airfield came on so we could at least have somewhere to land, but because of damage we could not contact them to get clearance, so we started to fire our Very Light, and they flashed a green Aldis Light giving us permission to land....... we made a circuit and started to descend and seemed to go well and I thought we had touchdown, and said “wizard landing skip” but almost immediately he said “don’t be too sure brace, for impact”, I grabbed the sting and gun sight with both hands and put my head in my hands, this is to avoid smashing my face into it as it is only inches away, I don’t remember the first impact just a rocking sideways and I was knocked unconscious.....

Max

[Denonline]

Max I have not come across the description "Sting". his description of the situation begs a couple of questions.
If he had his head held down protected by his hands & was in the standard FN rear turret then his head would have been almost touching his control column grips. His reference to the term sting may have been part of the frequently used term, "sting in the tail", the sting being the triggers on the control column.

I am assuming that he had his turret in the normal landing or emergency position on the port beam. bracing himself against the side of the turret under which circumstances his head would have been very near the rear of the stbd. Brownings.

Dennis

[ME453]

Thanks Dennis old chap, the fact that he would have needed 4 hands has been mentioned. You've highlighted a couple of interesting points which I'll throw into the discussion.
Regards
Max

[Denonline]

Max, The rear turret was unkind to any gunners prone to air sickness. Even the continuous slight flying control corrections were amplified at the rear of the a/c. as any "Elsan" visitors will confirm.

Dennis

[Merlin]

Hi all

I have only ever seen the turret from the outside of a Lancaster and I have always felt that being in such a tight space would be very dangerous in such situations.

Merlin

[Denonline]

Merlin after we had been issued with the pilot type chutes, then the rear turret was the easiest to evacuate.
The procedure being to open the sliding doors, lean backwards, the slipstream did the rest. With the older type flying boots they were often left behind, the escapist boots were fine.

Dennis

[R5868]

With the older type flying boots they were often left behind, the escapist boots were fine.

Dennis

Dennis, that would have been horrible in winter. It's a wonder anyone survived without major frostbite. No wonder they changed the boots.
Kerry