Short Stirling & RAF Bomber Command Forum

Grrrr !!! I have just come across a post on a facebook page, which is dedicated to the Lancaster Bomber, (The Lancaster Bomber the most beautiful aircraft in the history of Aviation) in which a photo of a piece of wreckage from the aircraft concerned, has been put up, and underneath, he has quoted, "you dont need a trowel, like Time Team, all you need is a ruddy great digger..... So after leaving quite a curt comment in answer to his remarks, i will now tell you (if you have not already guessed, that the aircraft concerned was 97sqdn ND739. I can only assume that the person who posted the photo and comments, was part of the team.
By the way, i have since been informed that the French Authorities are going to look into the matter.

Hi Alan,

I think your actions and restraint are a credit to you.

I am sure that there is not one forum member on this or any other aviation forum who is not repelled and disgusted by the actions of this individual and his select band. Their actions during and since the excavations have tarnished the reputation of all the "wreckology" groups both here and abroad. They are motivated by greed and greed alone, they cover their actions by justifying the digs as historical research, which it is most definitely not.

Thankfully the vast majority of researchers / historians carry out their work with the utmost respect for little or no personal rewards, because none is needed. However there are a few who are motivated by personal greed and a need to be in the spot-light to ease their egos, two traits which I personally find disgusting.

I hope that the British Aviation Archaeological Council (BAAC) deal with this matter swiftly and correctly, for if they do not they are no better than those who carried out this act of desecration.

Regards

Steve

So "Graves" robbers wasn't too wide of the mark then Alan!

I still cannot understand why we are all dancing around this issue. If anyone knows the names of those who are desecrating crash sites, they must be identified.

As a bit of of background, the reason why I feel so strongly about this is my great grandfather lost his life on HMS Indefatigable during the Battle of Jutland, a subject which I understand is out of the remit of this forum. However, the wreck of the Indefatigable was salvaged / robbed / desecrated during the 1950's by either a group or groups of Danish or German "salvagers". The Indefatigable has been reported to be in sections no bigger than a car and is unregonisable as a ship. I cannot confirm this as the gospel truth but it has been reported as being so. I am sure, approximately 40 years after the sinking of the Indefatigable, that what was left of my great grandfather, if anything, was neglible but the site was and is a war grave.

My uncle lost his life on an operation to Hanover in 1943 with 199 and his remains lie with two other of his crew in a collective grave in the CWGC cemetery to the West of Hanover. I have no idea if some of his remains still lie where his Strirling crashed at Ramlingen. However, to me, the crash site is as much of a war grave as his final resting place.

Restraint does not come into this subject. If this person, who apparently cannot be named for some reason, brought a digger to Ramlingen or if those who "salvaged" the Indefatigable were identified, restraint would not be the first word to come to my mind or actions.

If any member of this forum has evidence of the desecration of sites where men have lost their lives, let that evidence be heard and let those responsible be identified.

Douglas

Douglas, your comments are fair and true, however, I believe the reason Alan has not disclosed the 'person of interest' is out of respect for the person that told him, which again, is fair enough.
He gave his word and you can ask no more than that.

History will show, karma has a way of working itself towards those that warrant it, whether good or bad.
Cheers,
John

Douglas, your comments are fair and true, however, I believe the reason Alan has not disclosed the 'person of interest' is out of respect for the person that told him, which again, is fair enough.
He gave his word and you can ask no more than that.

As far as the 'grave digger' goes, history will show, karma has a way of working itself towards those that warrant it, whether good or bad.
Cheers,
John

My remarks are down to what information i have been given, by another person who was present at the dig. I only aired them here, to let people know, what was seen by the person who witnessed it. He asked me not to disclose certain bits, and as always, i will not betray trust. I thought this thread had run it's course, until yesterday, when i saw the flippant remarks made about, "you don't need a Time Team trowel, all you need is a ruddy great digger"

John

As you are aware, my comments are not directed at having a pop at Alan. My comments are directed at everyone, be they members of this forum or not, who has verifiable evidence of others who are desecrating crash sites. The people responsible must be identified publicly. Collective hand wringing and gnashing of teeth is pointless.

Douglas

Douglas,
Nothing personal taken on my behalf, sometimes just wish i had never seen the letter in the first place, as i am very passionate about those lost with BC, so not very amused by the alleged goings on at this dig site.