Looking for information on Stirling Aircraft & Crews ?

[mcmills]

Dave/Mark,
Is it significant that he has enclosed the starting letter in single quotation marks for each entry (as Mark has done in his post)? Why would they code these numbers?
Here is a list of dates and operations that my uncle recorded flying 'L'214, all with 190 SQN:
6/5/44 Tonga
7/7/44 Houndsworth
7/30/44 Donald-100
8/12/44 Snelgrove-3
9/5/44 Moses-14
9/10/44 Percy-38
9/20/44 Market
9/23/44 Market

Other aircraft flown were:
'J'824 4/29/44 & 7/18/44
'M'823 8/20/44 & 8/31/44
'B'196 10/9/44, 10/10/44, 10/12/44, & 11/27/44

Thanks
Steve

[M Simpson]

Hi Steve,
During the war,R.A.F.aircraft carried two sets of identification codes.One set identified the squadron the aircraft flew with-in the case of 190 Sqn Stirlings,I believe the code was G5.The individual aircraft was then given an identification letter-in this case it appears that it may have been L.The code for this aircraft would thus have appeared on the side of the aircraft as G5-L.If this aircraft was lost then a new one would have been given the letter L as it's code.EF214 is a unique serial number given to a particular aircraft by the manufacturer.If the aircraft was lost,then this serial number would not be re-used on any other aircraft.
Regards,Mark.

[mcmills]

Thanks for the explanation Mark.
Then it would seem EF214 is likely the one. One website listed it as a MkIII that had been converted to MkIV which I believe was a typical model for the type of transport duty carried out by 190 sqn.

[M Simpson]

Hi Steve,
For the sake of completeness,it would appear that the other aircraft in your uncle's log book would be;
'M' LJ823,failed to return Arnhem 21/9/44;
'J' LJ824;
'B' LK196,undercarriage collapsed on take-off at Great Dunmow on exercise 'Amber' 4/5/45.
Regards,Mark.

[Bruno]

Hello,

I've also the same serials and here is an extract of the Control Tower Flight Log of Tarrant Rushton of 29/30 April 1944 in which you'll see your uncle and LJ824.
Kind regards.

Bruno

[tranacz5372]

Aircraft Type: Stirling
Serial number: EF 163
Radio call sign: JN – L
Unit: ATTD 75 SQN RAF
Summary:
Stirling EF163 took off from RAF Mepal at 1700 hours on the night of 16/17
th
December 1943, detailed to carry out mine laying off the Frisian islands.
The aircraft crashed in bad visibility at Biddingtpon Farm, Sutton, Cambridgeshire, UK.
The cause of the crash may have been due to the aircraft’s centre of gravity being
effected by a mine that failed to release.
Crew:
RNZAF PO Kinross, C J Captain (Pilot)
RAF Sgt R Askew, (Flight Engineer)
RNZAF FO Jenkin, R F (Navigator)
RAAF 410330 Flt Sgt R H Emmerson, (Observer)
RAF Sgt W A Savage, (Wireless Air Gunner)
RAF Sgt S Newman, (Wireless Air Gunner)
RAF Sgt J A Warner, (Air Gunner)
Six of the crew were killed and Sgt Newman was injured in the crash.
PO Kinross, FO Jenkin and Flt Sgt Emmerson are buried in the Cambridge City
Cemetery, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Sgt Askew is buried in the Seaton Hirst (St John) Churchyard, Northumberland, UK.
Sgt Savage is buried in the Pendlebury (St John) Churchyard, Lancashire, UK.
Sgt Warner is buried in the Bootle Cemetery, Lancashire, UK.

[K4KittyCrew]

Phil,
Wayne our fellow forum member targets most of his research on 75 Sqn so he may be able to assist with relevant details. Also forum member 'Oggie 2620' ( Dee) with her interest also being "Bomber Command especially 75(NZ)Sqn and most especially Stirlings (just love em!) but anything WW2 or RAF related."
Cheers,
John

[English]

Hello there.
I have been metal detecting the crash site of NG270 for some time now and have found many parts of wreckage plus a couple of dials with numbers etc still intact.
Also I visited a gentleman today who witnessed the aircraft seconds before the crash and also saw the explosion as it crashed when he was eleven years old from a short distance where he lived then.
Please contact me so we can possibly swap info. The gentleman explained to me that as the aircraft flew over his house all engines seemed to be working at full speed so I am not sure if the story which I have also previously been led to believe of the engines freezing is correct. The aircraft was flying in the direction from Marholm to Upton before crashing (the gentleman lived in Marholm Lodges).

Regards from,
Kevin English
Peterborough
Cambridgeshire
England.
kevinenglish@live.ie

[English]

Hello there.
I have been metal detecting the crash site of NG270 for some time now and have found many parts of wreckage plus a couple of dials with numbers etc still intact.
Also I visited a gentleman today who witnessed the aircraft seconds before the crash and also saw the explosion as it crashed when he was eleven years old from a short distance where he lived then.
Please contact me so we can possibly swap info. The gentleman explained to me that as the aircraft flew over his house all engines seemed to be working at full speed so I am not sure if the story which I have also previously been led to believe of the engines freezing is correct. The aircraft was flying in the direction from Marholm to Upton before crashing (the gentleman lived in Marholm Lodges).

Regards from,
Kevin English
Peterborough
Cambridgeshire
England.
kevinenglish@live.ie

[lazlo]

Hi. My name is Lazlo Ferran. I am a writer and currently writing a novel - A WWII drama featuring Short Stirling MK1s. I need the answer to a question so I will put that first before giving more of my background as an introduction because a lot of people interested in Stirlings won't be interested in me.

According to the detailed history of individual Stirlings in the back of Michael Bowyer's book The Stirling Story, some Stirlings were redesignated, having their serial numbers changed. The first for which this happened was the third Stirling built L7605 and the record says, " AC 28.10.42, tailwheel collapse, soon became 3443M.

AC means Aircraft Repaired on site by Contractor.

There are a number of Stirlings that get these new Serial numbers (?) right up until about 1943 but then there is no mention any more of those individual aircraft and I can't see what happened to them.
My question is: what does the new serial mean (ie 3443M) and how do I find out what happened to these aircraft?

In many cases they appear to have gone for the use of Para Brigades or Heavy Conversion Units but thats as much as I can tell. I am wondering if they become non-airworthy and just used as hulks for training. Perhaps the 'M' means they are for Army (Military) purposes only. Any help would be appreciated.

To introduce myself a little more. I am a writer in my spare time (and work in IT for a Science Institute by day). I have always had a soft-spot for Stirlings since a friend proudly showed me his Airfix 1/72nd scale model in the 70s. I immediately built one myself and was impressed with its size and height, compared with the Lancaster and B-17. Then later I read up on it and recently I have been following the Stirling Project with avid interest. If I had 1/2 Million pounds free, i would go and dig up those supposed 7 stirlings buried in Egypt. Personally I think there is a fortune to be made there: they won't be too corroded in the dry sand and only the wings have been cut off the fuselage. Shorts themselves made repairs like that during the war. I don't think the russian Stirling will come to light: if there was one, the Russians would have offered it for about 7 Milion which is what I think the going rate for an intact Stirling would be. There is some money to be made there, not to mention the history.

As for my writing, I wrote an earlier novel - a horror fantasy called Ordo Lupus and the Temple Gate which featured a detailed account of a fictional raid by a squadron of Blenheims on a Dutch port with only one returning. Some of my friends told me I wrote about WWII and particularly aircraft very well so I thought I would do a complete novel on the subject. I might sign over the royalties to the Stirling Society. Its an idea. I also corresponded with Cliff Robertson (hollywood actor and mad keen aircraft buff: he owned a Spitfire for many years and starred in 633 squadron - one of my favourite aircraft movies. in fact the book and film inspired me to try and do something similar in my modest way. I may dedicate the book to Cliff.

If anybody out there is involved directly in an attempt or project to recover a complete stirling please let me know. I would love to contribute in any way I can.